borhani59's sketchbook

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Boris
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Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:36 pm

Wow, thanks, it's amazing :-)

I wonder whether it's a feature or a bug, i.e., should I try to preserve this kind of behaviour in future release? In Inkscape, they use a different method to render curves, which prevents drawing "twice" the same pixel, but therefore give a different result than VPaint for self-overlapping semi-transparent curves.
transparency_vpaint_vs_inkscape.png
transparency_vpaint_vs_inkscape.png (14.42 KiB) Viewed 6182 times
Hence, it is not possible in Inkscape to obtain these nice "effects" that you obtain with VPaint. I tend to think that the output of VPaint makes more sense than Inkscape, but there is a serious drawback: when the width of the curve is larger than the radius of curvature (which is the case to obtain the "effect"), then the final result you see depends on how many samples are computed to display the curve, which "should" (not implemented yet) depend on the zoom level.

Anyway, sorry for the technical details. My point is: it is a very interesting feature/issue to think about, and I am glad you pointed it out to me! :-) It all boils down to: "what mathematical definition to choose for thick curve, and how to implement it in practice?

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borhani59
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:39 pm

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:25 pm

sorry for late reply. i am busy too.
thanks for explain. i love details.
.... wow my favorite question ... yes! bug are new features. you may had not plan to achive this different effect but you wrote this and someone like me or anybody saw and use this ... it is a bad and unwanted bug if it is not useful but when we can use differently it is a new feature. but if you say BUG ... it became a bug !!! be attention : )
... a real story!
i am an active user in verve painter gallery and my GPU power and brand are differnt from software maker machin ... i have a different software from others and full use of these differents ... not so pretty ... may dirty and glitchy in other eyes but i like that and try use ... and after all i could have some unique styles ... i told to others but their machines are differents. my pc is buggy ? no it is different ... for this ask my answer is this: one to default and other to option toggle. just this*
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one compare ... your glue commands are useful but not enough artist friendly ... use this in brush strokes too
it is a big law ... use auto for all and give option for needs. see some firsts different ways ... i
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and about differents between softwares in render ... oh ... its early to start my idea book and i need more work and study but this is a nice puzzle for you and users ... dont answer fast ... it is may by a challenge . may be very different from here.
i check inkscape. it have two mode. and corel draw have one . Vpaint may have more ...
think about vector graphics ... it is so simple ... line ... shape ... color ... gradient ... mesh ... pattern ... brushes ... modifires ... filters ... effects ... and other all is simple but they are may have more powers when we see different.

oh ... english is hard for me ... i can only try to draw and suggest with draw. we have many vector editors ... you want what place ... my suggestion is experimental way ... classic tools or/plus different and more applied.

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borhani59
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:39 pm

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:26 pm

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borhani59
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:39 pm

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:26 pm

i found new wow effect here * color blend
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... Go to vector mesh ! ...

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Boris
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Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:12 pm

Oh man! Thank you so much Bohrani, your posts are incredibly useful!!!

Yes, feature vs. bug is a very, very, interesting question :-) At the end of the day, it's a design decision by the developer, and this is why I release these beta versions, to get early feedback from future users!! Since VPaint is based on a very young technology, there are still a lot of open questions and then many design decisions to make. This is why I prefer to take my time, see how users like to interact with VPaint, and make sure that the basic tools are very usable before implementing optional/advanced features (if change the basic tools too much, I would likely have to reprogram the advanced feature as well...).

"Toggle" buttons are often possible, but it makes the interface bulky and intimidating, I strive for simplicity! I might release a version for advanced users with more options, but I'd like VPaint to stay with as few buttons/options as possible. In a sense, I try to understand what "default" behaviour is best in most cases, use this behaviour in VPaint, and only in an advanced version of VPaint I could add toggle buttons for more control.

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Thx for all these lovely examples! Those are meant to be curves or painted areas? If they are curves, then a lot of them do not make sense to me ;-) Currently, when you draw a curve, you either obtain the top-left (=center?), or the "split", depending whether the "intersection" button is toggled or not. But thanks or all these cases, there are really interesting to think about! :-)
this is a nice puzzle for you and users ... dont answer fast ... it is may by a challenge .
Yes, it is a real challenge! Reason why I take my time and try not to take decisions too fast :-)
i check inkscape. it have two mode. and corel draw have one . Vpaint may have more ...
Yes, this is called the "fill rule", and the two possibilities "non-zero" and "even-odd" are very standard in vector graphics. I might indeed use (or let the user choose) a non-standard one in VPaint, if it makes more sense. The issue is that conversion to SVG, AI, or PDF might be hard or not possible at all, so your only option for printing/distributing would be to export as a bitmap image like BMP, JPG, or PNG (possibly very high resolution).
oh ... english is hard for me ... i can only try to draw and suggest with draw. we have many vector editors ... you want what place ... my suggestion is experimental way ... classic tools or/plus different and more applied.
Your English is good enough to understand your ideas! Drawings are awesome to communicate your ideas as well :-) Yes, there are many vector editors already, so I want VPaint to be a little different, but still I want it to be "simple" (not many tools/options, but that you can easily combine to achieve a large spectrum of illustrations), and stable :-) More tools would come later. :-)
i found new wow effect here * color blend
Yes, but there is still some work to be done here :)
joinIssue.png
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borhani59
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:06 am

new hello
hello Boris *

about last question: it is an unusual and microscopic question ...
both of micro things are equal from far but may simple way is better...for more control.
i refer we have mesh gradient feature when all things ready ...
i know that vpaint based other things now ...

sorry ... briefly i can say i am understand that your app is not for my style now.
i like fast, freely and different drawing but vpaint is not a usual sketchbook. it is slow for my start wave ...
it is for other solution. there are two ways ... move between to points ...
maybe i can move to vpaint. may i like topological games too. vpaint maybe nice for mesh games. i have many suggestions for vector mesh... dont limit this idea... even in new app and later... there are many vector graphic games with your toy ... if extend ...
snap rules - selection methods - smart curves - groups - more ideas one by one ... thats only in start ... when you have first wave of mesh features you can see second and third waves... i can compare with many softwares you should achieve adapted and vpainter ideas ... i try illustrate some of my ideas.

thanks for full explain. there have some tips and answers for your last reply but may say after. i dont forget.

think that i can restart from where?... retest with mesh points and move. ... i learned new things today. thanks!
Boris! you should make a nice tutorials for vpaint ... for artists these are hard. these like a technical puzzle ... you need simple way before special features and complex solutions, i like but hard for me too ...
you should have an simpler and easier process for artwork, few tools is not enough ...

oh ... monologue for after ... now i need test ... have a new A ...
... some of your tool design are very cool and inspiring but needs improve and debug.

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borhani59
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:39 pm

Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:19 am

after think about join i remember an old solution
voronoi shapes + offset + solid cut
008_Join.png
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borhani59
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:39 pm

Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:47 pm

classic
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voronoi join rule ... even curves
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2d mesh modeling ... i must try this idea game soon ... bevel, connect, ribbon, ladder, matrix, rings, non square faces ... many adaptive titles for 2d worlds ...
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Boris
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:53 pm

Thank you Bohrani for all the suggestions again!
you should make a nice tutorials for vpaint ... for artists these are hard. these like a technical puzzle ...
Yes, I know, this is planned. :-) I just don't have time right now, I am very busy working on my research. I'll have more time starting the end of January.
borhani59 wrote:after think about join i remember an old solution
voronoi shapes + offset + solid cut
Yes, this is the kind of output that I'd like to generate for the edge joins :-) (but it's not that easy to automatize, there are plenty of special cases to handles, even more because edges can have a variable width)

Cheers!

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borhani59
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:39 pm

Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:00 am

: )
ok i wait and decide with you ...but you should patient because i may write more and more suggestion and my needs : )
for hairlines this not a problem but this puzzle is more interesting when on shapes ...i thinks your complex graphic may became easier than classic simple vectors by some changes on skin of tools ... now drawing are based many lines and afterfill ... but you may start with filled shape and then sculpt, split, recolor, and many mesh ideas.

for last question. may be correct.
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